Roxana Mînzatu is Executive Vice-President of the Commission for Social Rights and Skills, Quality Jobs and Preparedness. Interviewed in Porto at the Social Forum, she takes stock of progress since 2021 and the EU’s major social objectives (an employment rate of at least 78% for 20-64 year-olds, participation of at least 60% of adults in training annually and a reduction in the number of people at risk of poverty or social exclusion of at least 15 million by 2030). She also mentions upcoming projects such as the ‘Quality Jobs Roadmap’. (Interview by Solenn Paulic)
Agence Europe - The Porto Social Forum aims to revive the spirit of the 2021 Summit. Are Europeans living better since then?
Roxana Mînzatu - I think 2021 seems quite far away. The cost of living is now a big issue, probably more so than in 2021. We have almost nine million more people on the job market.
Is that something that can tell us that Europeans are doing better? Statistically, you would say yes, but what jobs are they doing? Can they pay their electricity, their housing bills?
Eight percent of our workers experience poverty. We want to discuss the possibility of a fourth target for 2030, that of quality jobs, but this is not an easy conversation.
And when it comes to poverty, we are not doing well. If we do not change somehow, it will be difficult to achieve.
We are also looking at 2050, as President Ursula von der Leyen announced last week, with the aim of eradicating poverty (see EUROPE 13706/9). We need to radically accelerate our action. We need to set a clear political priority. This will be the aim of the future ‘European Anti-Poverty Strategy’ in 2026.
This involves the European budget and national budgets, social investment and private capital. Because the real challenge in the fight against poverty is not just to guarantee human dignity, but to be politically relevant as well, because a Europe where poverty is on the rise is a vulnerable Europe.
The Quality Jobs Act is eagerly awaited. What could it focus on?
In December, we will present a ‘roadmap’ with a number of consultations, followed by a legislative act. But we will not seek to establish a definition of quality employment, because that is impossible. What is valid for one sector is partially valid for another. For some, a quality job means a lot of flexibility. For others, it means a well-equipped work environment with many opportunities for advancement.
The need for good wages and fair compensation is undeniably valid everywhere. But health and safety concerns differ.
The future Act will include elements for which legal action and a European framework will be required. And I believe that algorithmic work management and the impact of artificial intelligence on work is one of the areas where European action makes more sense than different rules across Member States. It would enable companies to integrate algorithmic management into their human resources processes with a human-centred approach and clear ethical safeguards.
But we also want to address health and safety and psychosocial risks, and look at complex subcontracting relationships. The ‘roadmap’ will be comprehensive and will also include recommendations, but we will only know what form this will take after the consultations.
Fair worker mobility will be the subject of another package in 2026. Are other tools planned in addition to the new mandate of the European Labour Authority?
We want to bring this package forward by the second quarter of 2026. And it was precisely this Tuesday (16 September) that we organised a dialogue in Brussels with the stakeholders.
For the European Labour Authority, there are many calls to strengthen the management of situations involving third-country nationals and to carry out joint inspections, as this is not part of its mandate.
We are also discussing the need to strengthen technical capabilities by creating a wage calculation tool for highly mobile jobs, such as transport, where workers frequently move from one country to another.
The second is digitalisation, with the introduction of a European electronic social pass.
When it comes to the posting of third-country nationals, many workers arrive in a Member State and are quickly taken on by a company. Then, the next day, the second week or the following month, they are already posted to another Member State and are subject to the posting rules.
But in reality, they are not really posted workers. The companies that initially hired them in their first Member State are bogus companies. In my opinion, this is social dumping. Many of these workers simply do not their contract or salary in order.
Should the Posting Directive be reopened?
We are looking at how to clarify things. Are the existing rules fully applied by the Member States? Or do we need to amend something in the European directive? This could be a possibility, but it is clear that the current rules, as applied, allow areas of non-compliance.
The European Parliament would like a directive on subcontracting...
We are looking at what we can do. This debate on subcontracting chains is a bit tricky. Employers see it as a matter of improving accountability and consider it impossible to consider limiting the number of companies within the chain, as the business model is different and this would block companies.
On the other hand, trade unions and workers say that this is how abuses arise. Because there is always a huge difference between the company that owns the goods being transported or the truck and the company that employs the driver. Labour costs are falling more and more... we see this in transport, agriculture and construction. But I cannot say at this stage what we will do, or in what form.
It is impossible to talk about mobility without mentioning Regulation 883/2004 on social security schemes...
To return to our dialogue on Tuesday, I think 90% of the participants asked for a commitment to close this file, even though it was not on the agenda! This gives me hope. We have also been in contact with the Cypriot Presidency (of the EU Council, editor’s note). I am hopeful that we can close it.
How do you reconcile the numerous calls for directives with the majority trend toward legislative simplification?
The work is not just about delivering a package of directives. I am not one of those who want a multitude of proposals, but rather strong, feasible and valuable proposals that protect workers where there are gaps, support the European economy and have an impact on everyday life. We need to avoid overlap and new regulations just for the sake of regulating.
But when companies say that legislation is a burden, I think of the directive on equal pay and equal treatment. Was there a better solution?
Nor can we be content to just talk about the burden of legislation.