There is no shortage of projects awaiting the new Commissioner for Employment and Social Rights, Nicolas Schmit: supervision of workers on digital platforms, a European instrument for a fair minimum wage, a European mechanism for unemployment reinsurance, an action plan for the European social rights pillar, the fight against homelessness... These are all issues that promise to be highly inflammable politically and that the Luxembourger intends to take on board in order to return to the foundations of the social market economy, even if, at times, he has the impression that he is "preaching in the desert".(Interview by Pascal Hansens)
Agence Europe - Can you tell us a little more about the modalities and, above all, the purpose of the platform work summit next 22 September?
Nicolas Schmit - The nature of work on digital platforms is being questioned at both European and international level, whether it is about working conditions or the status of workers, i.e. are they fake self-employed, real self-employed or employees?
We have a very heterogeneous set of situations in Europe, which evolves very quickly and very differently depending on the country...and which leaves the field wide open. There is therefore a need for a framework of European rules on working conditions.
This summit will be a triggering event. Of course, we are not going to stop there; we are going to work on a framework to give a number of guarantees to platform workers.
On the status of workers, I am not clear yet. Are we going to decree - I don't like to decree too much - that they are employees? I don't think that's the heart of the problem. It is not the status that matters, but the working conditions.
Who would be the participants at the summit?
It will be the platforms, the people who work with these platforms, the social partners and all those who work on the statutes or on all the aspects that these platforms face.
The European instrument on minimum wages is one of the big dossiers that awaits you. You have visited the Danish and Swedish governments and social partners several times. Were you able to calm their fears?
First of all, for the European Commission to say that it wants a framework for minimum wages to evolve more favourably is a paradigm shift! Ten years ago, the message was more like: we have to cut wages. ' We want to get back to a real social market economy !
The difference in wages in Europe are 1 to 6 or even 1 to 7, while the productivity gap is 1 to 3. So there's a problem. Wages in Europe must be reinvigorated. And here the minimum wage is a trigger, especially in countries where wages are very low.
But let me make it clear that we do not want to impose a minimum wage for Europe, but where there are statutory wages, we want to push them a little more so that there is a stronger dynamic. The other element is collective bargaining.
There are six Member States which have no minimum wage but a system of wage setting by collective agreements, notably the Nordic countries or Austria, where the coverage of collective agreements ranges from 80 to almost 100%. Am I going to dictate to those countries the introduction of a statutory minimum wage? Of course not!
A legal text will be introduced to protect these collective bargaining systems. That should give them more guarantees. But for now, I'm still preaching in the desert a little bit.
Another long-awaited dossier is the European unemployment reinsurance scheme. What are the options currently on the table?
We must not forget the origin of this idea: it is a stabilising instrument for the euro area. Now there is a debate: how is all this going to be financed? It’s my colleague, Paolo Gentiloni (Commissioner for the Economy), who is studying this. Who are the recipients? Are they people? No, I don't think so. A priori, it is more likely that unemployment systems will be the beneficiaries.
What are the conditions that would trigger this system? There, we're working on it. The reasons for the increase in the unemployment rate must also be determined. Is it cyclical or structural? Are we introducing a short-time working system, 'Kurzarbeit' in German? Yes, why not?
Are we going to cover all the countries of the Union, or only the countries of the euro area, with an option for those who are not in the euro to join the system ? Will it be on budgeted or off-budget?
There are many questions that don’t have a definitive answer yet. It's a technically challenging and politically complex subject.
Do you intend, under your mandate, to launch some form of initiative to tackle the issue of homelessness?
This is a major issue, a growing problem in Europe. The Union does not, a priori, have much competence. This is a subject that must be integrated into our approaches to social policy, to the fight against exclusion.
In the 'European Child Guarantee', there are elements on the housing problem. We need to be more energetic with the Member States in order to come up with palliative solutions and to invest. The European level will push for awareness first and concrete measures second.
Can the 'European Semester' as 'soft power' play a role?
Yes, the soft power in this section has to be very active, very clear and explicit. We want to modernise the 'Semester' to make it more effective by building on the economic-financial pillar, the social pillar and the sustainability pillar. We want to anchor it more firmly in the European and national debate, because it is at national level that the debate must take place.
The previous Commission did not present a proposal to create a European social security number. Could the project come back under your mandate?
I'm all for it. It is not normal for Europe to talk about digitisation from morning to night and then, there, we have nothing. It is an instrument that could make it much easier for us to fight fraud and to facilitate free movement. So, yes, chances are this topic will come back!
The interinstitutional negotiations on the Regulation on the coordination of social security systems seem to have come to a standstill. Germany is very insistent, particularly on one point: the temporary exemption for prior notification before posting. What is the opinion of the European Commission?
If we had a more efficient social security system and a European social security number, this issue would be relatively superfluous. Unfortunately, we will not have this system in place within 6 months.
I have read a comment from the German trade unions that they are a little sceptical about the new latitudes demanded by the German government. If we had a more efficient digital system, the problem could be solved more easily - also for SMEs.
Exemptions for business travel are not a problem. In situations of extreme emergency, perhaps. My goal is to maintain rigour.
This week is the pivotal week for the European Union. Do you think Charles Michel's proposals on the EU Multiannual Financial Framework for 2021-2027 are appropriate?
We cannot have a Europe that is more active, stronger in the world, at home, and put zero effort into fighting Euroscepticism. It's not feasible. It is a bit simplistic to say 'we are going to take from some to give to others, we are going to cut the budget for cohesion policy and the common agricultural policy to give it to climate, research and technology'.
One last question. You have witnessed and been involved in the various major revisions of the European Treaties since Maastricht. What mistakes should be avoided during this process organised in the context of the Conference on the Future of Europe?
The feelings and views of Europeans must not be overlooked. These are the real issues that affect their lives, where Europe can provide solutions: issues of housing, poverty, employment, the future of their jobs in relation to technology and the Green Deal.
These are fundamental questions. I would therefore also like to see the debate we’re having on social rights become, in one way or another, part of this debate on the future. This is the future of the European social model. How can we maintain it while adapting it to today's new challenges? That's the debate!