Brussels, 12/03/2013 (Agence Europe) - Former Minister of Trade (2004-2011) and current Minister of Tourism and Creative Economy of the Repbulic of Indonesia, Mari Elka Pangestu is a candidate to succeed Pascal Lamy at the head of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) next summer. Visiting Brussels on 8 March, Pangestu presented her vision of the multilateral trade system, and of global trade and development, in an exclusive interview with EUROPE. (Interview conducted by Emmanuel Hagry).
Agence Europe: Do you consider that the current economic shift to Asia makes you the ideal candidate for the post of director-general of the WTO?
Mari Pangestu: Not so much because of the economic shift to Asia, but because Asia is one region which has benefited from trade and from an open multilateral trading system. In my own country, I have seen how trade has transformed the economy. And I believe that kind of experience hopefully will help a director-general in understanding the challenges that countries face when they are opening-up. When you talk about how trade transforms a country, it is not just about trade policy alone. Opening up by itself does not deliver development. You need complementary policies - whether it is infrastructures, whether it is preparing human resources or preparing policies so that you can compete. Otherwise you don't feel the benefits of the opening and you face resistance, and even backlash. So I would like to think that my Asian experience will help, being in the position of director-general, to understand what are the challenges developing countries face when they are opening up.
Agence Europe: Would you be proud of being the first woman at the head of such an organisation?
Mari Pangestu: Yes, and I like to believe that if I become the first woman at the head of the WTO, it is because I am a capable woman, and I would like to see more capable women running any organisation including international organisations. And today it is International Women's Day so… (laughs)
Agence Europe: What is your vision of the future for the international trade and the multilateral trade system? As WTO director-general, what are the steps you would take for the trade system in general terms?
Mari Pangestu: In general terms, the global trading system has led to a lot of growth, job creation and reduction of poverty and in the last 50 years. And we feel that it is still an important role for the global trading system. Sometimes we get lost in the language of complexity about the global trading system, but at the end of the day the global trading system delivers a simple set and unique set of rules which make it easier for small countries and developing countries to be part of it and fairly treated under that system - because if they have a dispute with a big country they can bring it to the WTO. One set of rules which is clear, simple, predictable and certain is important for business and small businesses. Can you imagine if small businesses have to fulfil different rules and different regulations in different markets, it would be very difficult for them to do business. That is why we need to ensure that we can safeguard the simplicity, the fairness and the inclusiveness of the global trading system.
Agence Europe: Do you think the rise of litigation cases will make the WTO much more like a policeman to guarantee fair trade around the planet?
Mari Pangestu: It should be a continued important function of the WTO to make sure that its rules-based framework and its dispute settlement procedures are there and working because that it is part of the huge benefits of the WTO. But it should be also completing the multilateral negotiations and the Doha Round, and also beginning to address new issues which are affecting trade.
Agence Europe: Do you still believe we can still conclude the Doha Round?
Mari Pangestu: I believe all member countries still hold a view that there is still benefit of the Doha Round. There is now an approach to do it step by step. Some parts will be negotiated and hopefully converged to a conclusion this year at the ministerial meeting in Bali. We can do it in a more pragmatic step but at the end of the day, concluding the Doha Round can still deliver the benefits, especially for developing countries. As a director-general we should work as hard as possible to complete these negotiations, because the benefits are so huge - including again having a simple and unique rules-based global trading system which is beneficial for SMEs and for developing countries.
Agence Europe: So despite the fact that the WTO proceeds with the single undertaking rules, do you think it is possible to extract an outcome of the negotiating for the development?
Mari Pangestu: Well, it has to be balanced. Every member I believe will still remain committed, but every member would want to get something out of the process of negotiation. That is why the so-called early harvest which is being prepared for the Bali ministerial conference at the end of the year, has this balance. We have the trade facilitation component, which should benefit businesses and all countries, but developing countries feel that they need capacity building to meet all those commitments - that is one part of the trade facilitation package. And then within the early harvest, we have development components in the agriculture package, as well as the least developed countries package, which also need to be there to balance the outcome. And after Bali, we hope that we can progress in pragmatic ways to complete the rest of the negotiation.
Agence Europe: Let's suppose the Doha round is concluded in the short or medium term, what are the new topics you would want on the table of the next round of negotiations?
Mari Pangestu: We need to begin a discussion on the new ideas and new topics. That could include trade and environment, investment, climate change, food security and how to manage regional and bilateral agreements while we have the multilateral system. These are issues that are already affecting the way we do trade, and as a top organisation for global governance, the WTO should be looking at these issues.
Agence Europe: What do think about the multiplication of bilateral trade agreements around the world and about their impact for developing world?
Mari Pangestu: For us to make sure that bilateral and regional agreements do not affect or do not become a threat to the multilateral trading system, they must be consistent and complementary. That means they should be not sub-standard. They should be “WTO plus” agreements, more comprehensive, using WTO as a standard and doing more than what is done in the WTO. And at the same time they should not be closed, they should be inclusive, and allow new members to come in, or set standards for other agreements, including in the WTO itself. For bilateral and regional agreements, if you are a developing country, you have kind of two issues. One is the resources to negotiate. As a developing country, you don't have so many resources to negotiate. That's why if you have limited resources, multilateral trading is still better for you and it is still fairer, because you can get fair treatment. If you negotiate with a more developed country in a bilateral way, you have less bargaining power compared to multilateral agreement, so multilateral is still more beneficial for small and developing countries. And if you are to negotiate a bilateral or regional agreement as a small developing country, you have to make sure that you have the right balance, in terms of special and differential treatment, and longer timeframes to implement market opening, and effective capacity building.
Agence Europe: What is the legacy you are proud to have laid on the table as a minister for trade and as the coordinator for the G33 group of developing countries in the WTO?
Mari Pangestu: I would like to think that my legacy is to make sure that trade and development is always seen as one continuum. I used to say that I am not a minister for trade, I am a minister for trade and development. My job as a trade minister was to see how trade policy delivers development. An example of how I tried to achieve that was, for instance, as the coordinator for the G33. We agree on market access and opening up in the agricultural negotiations, but at the same time we also want to protect vulnerable groups in our countries - the poor famers who can be wiped out if you don't manage the way you open up. For food security reasons and poverty reasons, there are certain sectors that you have to make sure continue to be protected. (transl.fl)