The European Commissioner for Jobs and Social Rights, Nicolas Schmit, spoke at length with EUROPE, on Friday 18 March, about the hot issues on his plate, starting with the refugee crisis and the Social Climate Fund in connection with the energy crisis. (Interview by Pascal Hansens)
Agence Europe: The European Commission recently presented the CARE initiative. Some feel that this is not enough. First of all, do we know exactly how much funding is left in the framework of, for example, the ESF for 2014-2020?
Nicolas Schmit: We know more or less what is left in the European Social Fund (ESF), the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and especially in REACT-EU, where there is a lot of money.
The problem, especially for the ESF, is that some countries directly affected by the wave of refugees, such as the Czech Republic, have no more funds available. The Baltic countries have almost nothing left either, as they have used up everything. In fact, those who have worked well, who have absorbed all the money, find themselves in a bit of a bind.
...Is the European Commission therefore working on a follow-up to the CARE initiative?
Of course, we need to think about a next step! We should not expect the war to end tomorrow. Today, we are at 3 million refugees, but we will certainly reach 4, maybe 5 million, and we must not exclude the worst case scenario, namely 10 million refugees.
Countries on the front line are in trouble. We need to think of other ways. So, the European budget does not have so much flexibility at the moment. We are engaged in a process of reflection on possible alternative approaches, including financial ones, but it is too early to go into details.
Is the European strategy to integrate refugees on European territory in the long term?
You have to think in the long term. Yesterday we had a meeting with the social partners, the ETUC and BusinessEurope among others. They are absolutely willing to work within this logic of integration into the labour market. We need to consider how these young people can be integrated into apprenticeships and training.
From the field we can see that the refugees, mainly women, want to work. Refugees do not want to stay in camps. Their skills must therefore be assessed.
Another important point is that there is certainly a surge of solidarity with Ukraine at the moment. But it won't last forever. People must not be given the impression that aid and social policies for refugees will be at their expense. It is important to keep this in mind.
Can refugees be channelled into labour shortage sectors?
Yes, of course. I think that where people have a better chance of finding a job is in the sectors in shorty supply. Another challenge is to avoid abuse. There is the problem of traffickers. Refugees are in a vulnerable situation and risk being exploited. This is a point on which we must be uncompromising.
Now let’s talk about the Social Climate Fund. From the beginning, you have had a somewhat conflicting relationship with this Fund...
No, not at all, I have no conflicting relationship with this Fund! Some had doubts about extending the ETS (Emissions Trading System - editor’s note) to the road transport and construction sectors. I won’t hide the fact that I am one of them.
However, if the extension of the ETS to specific sectors is to be accepted, it must be in strong connection with the Fund. At present, the Member States are very divided. We find people who are a priori very pro-climate, who are against the extension of the ETS.
Is changing the share of direct income support or changing the share of ETS2 directed to the Social Fund a possibility?
These are possibilities, of course! Look, no one, when this ETS project was submitted, thought that we would have such a spike in energy prices. We now have energy prices that are well above what the prices would have been in the past with the extension of the ETS.
Today, in many countries, prices are subsidised, either through taxes or through vouchers. We find ourselves in a redistributive logic without ETS, even if there is obviously additional revenue, since the higher the price, the more the tax brings in.
The real situation in the energy markets must now be taken into account. This is clear to me and I think to Vice-President Timmermans as well.
Some suggest that the scope of the Fund could be extended to vulnerable businesses. Do you think this is a good approach?
It wasn't thought of that way. I understand the logic. But is the Social Climate Fund the right instrument? I don’t want to say anything, but I have a big question mark.
Another topic is the protection of workers from asbestos. What is the Commission’s position on this draft legislation?
I am in full support of Parliament on this asbestos issue. This is an issue that needs to be addressed as a priority. A communication covering all aspects of asbestos has been promised after the summer. We will work on exposure standards. The process has been launched with expertise, social partners, etc. I hope to present a directive in September or October.
Another thing is that the European Parliament is asking for some kind of register on the different buildings containing asbestos. This makes sense. But it is a Herculean task! I am not sure whether we have the competence to impose this in the European treaties either. But recommendations can be made.
Concerning asbestos-related diseases as an occupational disease, we don’t have the power to impose anything, it’s linked to social security, but we will certainly make a recommendation.
On the minimum wage directive. Do you still think it is possible to reach an agreement on this text under the French Presidency?
France is strongly committed at the highest level. I express the strongest hope that we will indeed reach an agreement with the co-legislators before the end of the Presidency.
There is a central issue, Article 5, on the adequate minimum wage. What was finally proposed was a middle ground. If we weaken the article too much, we would weaken the whole directive. But it should not be made more burdensome either, including with a lot of things that do not directly belong in the minimum wage. This is primarily a directive on minimum wages, not a directive on the fight against poverty.
But there are elements which, of course, can enrich this article, so we must see how far we can go. I also expect those who are very attached to this directive to raise their voices a little and ask for faster progress.
Regarding ESSPASS, where are we on the pilot project? Until recently, it was only Italy...
Yes, there are more now: Spain, Portugal, France, Sweden, Germany too. The DG is working, if it can find support from the Member States. Now it is moving, which I welcome. But it needs to move a little faster. We managed to do something quickly to respond to Covid-19 (the ‘Green Pass’ - Editor's note). Why should it be absolutely impossible to do something in the social field?
On the regulation on the coordination of social security systems, the Interinstitutional Agreement was torpedoed for the second time in December by the Member States. Is the European Commission considering withdrawing the text, reworking it?
The Commission will not withdraw the text. But here too, we need to return to a more balanced position. It is a difficult text. With the introduction of prior notification, it has become even more complicated, because it unites camps with very different positions.
It has taken 10 years to achieve a balance of women and men on boards of directors. I hope it won’t take 10 years... We have to look at how we can relaunch this when the time comes.
On the Digital Platforms Directive, some argue that France has little appetite to really take this issue on board. Is France dragging its feet?
I hope not...