An emblematic figure of the German radical left, President of the European Left Party, Gregor Gysi spoke with EUROPE on the sidelines of the Bilbao European Forum (see other news) on Saturday 10 November, giving a worrying overview of the European Union and worrying about the divisions that are crossing his political family on the eve of the European elections, not to mention comment on Manfred Weber's recent appointment as EPP Spitzenkandidat. (Interview by Pascal Hansens)
Agence Europe - The European elections are held in a few months. How would you describe the situation of the left in Europe? Is it worrying or, on the contrary, a source of hope?
Gregor Gysi - The situation of the European left for the European elections is difficult. Perhaps not as difficult as for social democracy, perhaps not as difficult as for the conservatives, but it is not easy. And this is due to a contradiction that exists within the left and, precisely, for the European elections. There is a majority on the left who assume that we can meet the challenges internationally. And there is a significant minority, who believe that challenges can only be met at the national level. I don't say nationalist. I don't know what a compromise between these two left-wingers might be.
You refer to Jean-Luc Mélenchon (co-founder of the pan-European movement Now the people!) and Sahra Wagenknecht (initiator of the national movement Aufstehen)?
Not only that. We also have this problem in Scandinavia. We also have it in Southern Europe. It is not only about individuals, but also about fundamental feelings.
What can you do to reach an agreement with this minority?
We are currently developing a European left programme for the European elections and I can tell you that it is not easy. Why? Because everyone must say 'yes' when applying the principle of unanimity. And there may be some statements in the programme that are still a little too general. But when we have something, then we will have a base and, with that base, we will be able to act within the national parties. But I warn the left on one thing: it must remain internationalist. Otherwise, it abandons an essential part of its character.
Have you invited any members of the movement ‘Now the people!’?
Yes, we have done that. It's like before: a little difficult. But I invited an important person from this movement, who explained to me that they would have come if there were not a visit from Mrs Merkel to France at this time. This is already a difference from what was said earlier, namely: "No!” Now I was told: "we would have come, but...". So it's already an evolution!
Where are you at with the European Spring, the movement launched by Yanis Varoufakis and Benoît Hamon?
Varoufakis was invited and he would have come, but the time to discuss is too short. Varoufakis is a different personality and I think his movement has a lot to do with the fact that he felt hurt and we should not underestimate what such a thing can mean. Especially when you were a minister... rightly or wrongly, that's another question.
One thing is certain, and Macron is right on this point: if the democrats do not come together now, we will end up with an evolution towards the far right, which will make us regret not having been able to find each other.
Does that mean that you share his view that we must create a progressive front against the extreme right?
That, yes. I do not share his view that there is no difference between the right and the left. That's nonsense and I can prove it. And I don't think we all want an open society. It's a little short. But he is right when he says that, from the conservatives to the left, we should think together about what we must do to stop the rise of the populist right and the far right. How do we get people to turn away from this path? We must also reflect on this with economic actors, trade unions and also the media, with art and culture actors, experts and the church. We must include them all, because there are forces everywhere that are against this development. But if we don't do this together, it's all going to get lost.
What would be the best figure for you to represent the European left as Spitzenkandidat?
We are still looking for more. We have so many people who are perfect (for the job) that it is very difficult to make a selection. (laughs)
Have you received many applications?
Let's just say they're pretty limited. You know, it's a difficult job to be a Spitzenkandidat; you have to travel all over Europe, but not to be elected anywhere. This can wear you out. And then, above all, the difficulty lies in the fact that we must all agree on this person. There are some who do not want a Spitzenkandidat, others want one. The question will be definitively decided at the end of January.
And could you be Spitzenkandidat?
I think the idea is great, but everything seems to show the opposite.
Does the GUE/NGL group have a future?
Yes, it seems to be safe. All party leaders have agreed on this: they will under no circumstances create two political groups. We're going to have a group and we have to do everything we can to make it strong. As for the name, we can always discuss it. The name is not very beautiful, but it is also the result of a compromise. I have always said that in Germany, we could call ourselves WL, for "Wirkliche Linke” (The True Left). And it would be so short! (laughs)
And will its confederal structure remain?
Yes, and this is because of the Scandinavian parties that want it and I don't think that's going to change. But you know, the forecasts right now are difficult, because everything is in motion. Who would have said, say two years ago, that Mrs Merkel would be shattered, as she is now?
Should the European left avoid any coalition with the Social Democrats?
At the European level, there will be no such coalition. We can discuss with them - that is what I am doing - to get one thing or another through or out of the European Parliament. But I am also talking to the conservatives, the liberals and, of course, the Greens. It's only with the far right that I don't want to hold discussion. Then there is the national level, and that depends on how social democracy is standing.
Yesterday, Manfred Weber (EPP, Germany) was elected as Spitzenkandidat for his group. What do you think of him?
I spoke with him. He's really a conservative. But he's surprisingly open for a CSU conservative. That's what I found out when I talked to him. But it remains what it is. As the conservatives' Spitzenkandidat, he is rather promising for the job of Commission President. He must be careful about one thing: he must not organize everything too much in the German way and even less in the Bavarian way. And it must ensure that it imposes a social dimension on European integration.
And what do you think of his rather consensual position towards Viktor Orbán?
It's typical of the CSU, they've always welcomed Orbán. They have a weakness for despots. I don't say when a despot dominates, but also for despotic characters. And that's what Orbán, Erdoğan and Putin are. And all these people have good contacts. Except that the CSU underestimates one thing: that without democracy, they would also fall through the cracks. And that is why they must be wary of those who are gradually dismantling democracy.